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Home » Current Events, Featured Articles

The Astrology of the Presidential Debates

Posted by and on Tuesday, October 2 201245 Comments

Obama-Romney debate

The first of the four presidential debates for the 2012 election begins tomorrow, and the purpose of this article is to provide an overview of the astrology of the debates.

This article will cover some of the astrological highlights of the four debates, which includes a discussion of the inception chart for the beginning of each debate, as well as an analysis of significant transits that each of the candidates will be having on each debate night.

Each section will be concluded with a summary of our observations about the key astrological signatures for each debate, and who we think will come out on top.

Schedule for the Presidential Debates

Each debate will begin at 9:00 PM EDT, and then end at 10:30 PM, although the local time will vary depending on the location. Here is the schedule for the debates:

  • October 3 – First Presidential Debate – Denver, Colorado, beginning at 7:00 PM MDT.
  • October 11 – Vice Presidential Debate – Danville, Kentucky, beginning at 9:00 PM EDT.
  • October 16 – Second Presidential Debate – Hempstead, NY (Nassau County), 9:00 PM EDT.
  • October 22 – Third Presidential Debate – Boca Raton, Florida, beginning at 9:00 PM EDT.

Let’s begin our analysis with the first debate, which takes place tomorrow in Denver.

First Presidential Debate – October 3, 2012 at 7:00 PM MDT in Denver, Colorado

The first debate between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney is supposed to focus on domestic policy.

The Inception Chart for the First Debate

  • Chart for first Presidential DebateThe first debate begins with 22 Aries rising in Denver.
  • The main signature in the chart is the applying Moon-Mars opposition, with the Moon at 24° Taurus and Mars at 27° Scorpio. This is a repetition of the same configuration that was occurring during the DNC last month. The Moon here is actually very close to the same degree as when Obama accepted the nomination. The Moon will conjoin the ascendant exactly right at the end of the debate.
  • The second most striking placement in the chart is that Venus moves into Virgo the day of the debate. At the time that the debate begins the closest aspect in the chart is Venus at 0° Virgo opposing Neptune at 0° Pisces, within 8 minutes of arc. This Venus-Neptune opposition is one of the main signatures for the first debate, since it is the closest aspect in the chart.
  • This is the only debate that will take place while Saturn is still in Libra.
  • Another signature is Mercury conjunct Saturn, with Mercury at 27° Libra and Saturn at 29°. This conjunction will set at the descendant very early on in the debate, between 7:13 and 7:20 PM in Denver. Traditionally Mercury-Saturn combinations are associated with difficulties in communication, which in this context might mean some sort of verbal gaffe, or perhaps one of the candidates literally having problems speaking.
  • Around 7:20-7:21 the ascendant moves into Taurus, which almost seems to indicate a change in the mood or tone of the debate, from this tense or very serious Saturn on the descendant to a more relaxed or lighthearted Venus at 0° Virgo trining the ascendant.
  • Although it isn’t playing a very major role in the chart for the debate itself, Jupiter stations retrograde early the next morning, which is very significant. Interestingly, it doesn’t station direct until late January, just after the inauguration. This seems to reflect a close connection between this particular debate and who is sworn into office on inauguration day.

Obama’s Transits

  • Mars conjunct MC – Mars at 27° Scorpio is conjoining Obama’s natal Midheaven at 28 Scorpio.  Some astrologers might interpret this as being a negative transit for Obama to have, however, Obama was born at night, and so according to the concept of sect his Mars transits are much less negative.  It is also worth noting that Mars is the ruler of his 10th house.  So, on this night the ruler of his 10th conjoins the MC, which is rather auspicious.
  • The north node is also in Scorpio, at 26 degrees, conjunct Mars at 27°.  This is squaring his natal north node at 27° Leo.  So, he has a transiting Mars-Node conjunction in his 10th, square his nodes.
  • Moon square Uranus – Transiting Moon at 24° Taurus is applying to a square with his natal Uranus at 25° Leo.  This actually goes exact during the debate at 8:09 PM.  Usually a transit like this reflects an unexpected development or surprise.
  • Moon trine Saturn – Transiting Moon trine Saturn goes exact at 8:17 PM, right towards the end of the debate.  This is a more positive transit for Obama, especially with Saturn ruling his ascendant.  It is almost like Romney does something unexpected that unsettles Obama, but then Obama regains his stride a few minutes later.
  • Venus sextile Venus – Transiting Venus is important for Obama because it is activated as the lord of the year for him since his birthday in August.  It is striking that it has just moved into Virgo right before this debate, sort of like how it just moved into Leo right before he accepted the nomination at the convention.  During the debate transiting Venus at zero Virgo is applying to a sextile his natal Venus at 1 Cancer, which is generally an auspicious transit.
  • Jupiter trine ASC – Transiting Jupiter, which stations retrograde a few hours after the debate, is trine to Obama’s ascendant within about a degree and a half.

Romney’s Transits

  • Mars conjunct Moon/Jupiter – Romney’s closest transit when the debate begins is transiting Mars at 27° Scorpio conjunct his natal Moon-Jupiter conjunction at 27° Scorpio.  The Mars-Moon transit is within 8 minutes of arc.  This is problematic since he was born during the day, so Mars is the most malefic planet for Romney.  All the more so since Jupiter rules the 10th whole sign house.
  • Jupiter conjunct Uranus – Transiting Jupiter at 16° Gemini, which stations retrograde just a few hours after the debate, is conjoining his his natal Uranus at 17° Gemini, within about a degree and a half.  This is more of a positive transit for Romney because it usually indicates unexpected or sudden benefits.  This Jupiter station is also important because it is a recurrence transit for Romney, since he was born about 1 day away from a Jupiter retrograde station, and the debate itself is being held within a degree of a Jupiter retrograde station.  This particular station is important because it is occurring in his 1st house.
  • Other than that, Romney doesn’t have a lot of significant transits going on at the time that are specific to the debate.  There are a few outer planet transits, but these are long-term, and some of them become more exact during later debates, so we will discuss them there.  Other inner planet transits on this date, like transiting Sun conjunct Neptune, are separating, and are more than a degree or two away from exact, so it is not clear if they are relevant for the debate.

First Debate Conclusions

The Moon-Mars opposition seems to indicate combativeness as a major signature of this debate.

Ultimately Obama seems to have better career transits for the first debate, with transiting Mars conjoining his MC in his nocturnal birth chart, versus Romney having transiting Mars conjoin his Moon and Jupiter (which rules his 10th) in a diurnal birth chart.

Obama may still be in for some surprises though, with the Moon square his natal Uranus, and transiting Jupiter stationing conjunct Romney’s natal Uranus in the 1st.

Vice Presidential Debate – October 11 at 9:00 PM EDT in Danville, Kentucky

The Vice Presidential debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan is supposed to focus on both foreign and domestic policy.

***Update: This section on the VP debate was revised on October 4, 2012 after a reader named Tracy pointed out in the comments section below that the original time that we were using for this debate was an hour off, due to a mistake we made in placing Danville in CDT rather than EDT. This section has been updated accordingly to reflect the 1 hour difference.***

Inception Chart for the VP Debate

  • Vice Presidential Debate HoroscopeThe debate is set to begin at 9:00 PM in Danville, and at that time the ascendant will be at 29°50′ Taurus.  If the debate starts just 30 seconds later, after 9:00:34 PM, then the ascendant will be at 0° Gemini. We will have to see what happens, although we strongly suspect that they will end up starting the debate after the ascendant has moved into Gemini, and so the horoscope or chart for the debate to the right reflects that placement rather than the Taurus rising chart. The only counter-argument against doing this might be the fact that the Moon was at 29° Taurus when Obama first announced that he had chosen Biden as his running mate in 2008.
  • Moon square Mars, applying, and only 19 minutes of arc from exact when the debate begins. This is the main signature in the chart. It is interesting because the Moon opposing Mars was one of the main signatures in the first debate, although it wasn’t as close to exact as in this chart. This seems to imply that this debate is even more combative than the first one. The Moon-Mars square goes exact at 9:35 PM in Danville, just over 30 minutes into the debate.  This is also important because both Biden and Ryan have early Sagittarius rising in their birth charts, and Mars will be at at 3° Sagittarius, right on both of their ascendants.
  • Transiting ascendant square Neptune goes exact at 9:02 PM, right as the debate begins. Neptune also becomes prominent again at the very end of the debate when it reaches the MC, which seems to make it one of the other major signatures in the chart, especially since it is part of a T-square with the Moon and Mars. Neptune usually has to do with deception, and so it seems that one of the other major themes of the debate will be issues surrounding lying or dishonesty.
  • The transiting MC squares Mercury exactly at 9:02 PM, also right as the debate begins.
  • Mars conjoins the descendant exactly and sets over the western horizon at 9:12 PM.  Moon square ascendant at the same time.
  • The ascendant squares Venus at 9:36.  This is is right when the Moon-Mars square goes exact as well.
  • MC trine Sun at 9:41.
  • Transiting ascendant conjunct Jupiter at 9:59 PM.  This is one of the most positive hits to the angles during the course of the evening, and it will be interesting to see if one of them doesn’t say something around this time that ends up playing very well with the public and the press.
  • Ascendant trine Sun at 10:11.
  • MC moves into Pisces and conjoins Neptune 10:23-10:27.  Maybe some specific instance of lying or dishonesty around this time?
  • The MC squares Mars exactly and around 10:36, although the debate is supposed to be over by this time.

Biden’s Transits

  • Moon square Uranus – This transit goes exact for Biden about 45 minutes before the debate begins. Obama also had the same transit during the first debate, and it was also to a 7th house Uranus placement. Perhaps somehow Ryan surprises Biden with something as well.
  • Moon square Ascendant – This goes exact right after the debate begins.
  • Saturn opposite Moon – Second closest transit is Saturn at 0° Scorpio applying to oppose natal Moon at 0° Taurus within 15 minutes of arc.  He has a day chart, but still not a very positive transit to be having.
  • Mars conjunct Ascendant – Third closest transit is transiting Mars at 3° Sagittarius conjunct Biden’s ascendant at 3° Sagittarius.  This is problematic since he was born during the day, and thus Mars is more malefic. Transiting Mars is also opposing his natal Uranus at 2° Gemini at this time, separating, although within 41 minutes of arc, which is even more problematic.  This is the type of transit that tends to coincide with someone being more aggressive than normal, sometimes with sudden outbursts.
  • Venus square Saturn – Fourth closest is transiting Venus at 10° Virgo, square Saturn at 9° Gemini, separating, but only 18 minutes of arc from exact. Virgo is activated via annual profections.  Again, not a great transit.
  • Biden is having a Sun-Jupiter recurrence transit.  He was born with the Sun trine to Jupiter within about 2 degrees, with the Sun on the left side, and then the debate takes place when the Sun and Jupiter are also trine again, about 2 degrees away.

Ryan’s Transits

  • Neptune square Neptune – Closest transit is transiting Neptune at 0° 36′ Pisces square natal Neptune at 0° 35′ Sagittarius, within 1 degree of arc! This is applying, and it goes exact about 24 hours later.
  • Neptune square Ascendant – Second closest transit is Neptune at 0° 36′ Pisces square his natal ascendant at 0° 38′ Sagittarius, separating, within 2 minutes of arc.
  • The transiting MC at the beginning of the debate is very closely conjoining Ryan’s Sun/Venus conjunction at 9°/10° Aquarius, which seems very positive for him.
  • Mars trine Mars – Transiting Mars at 3° Sagittarius trine natal Mars at 3° Aries, separating, but only 11 minutes of arc from exact. This one is important since his natal Mars is very well-placed, by sign, house, sect, etc.
  • Mercury square Sun & Venus – Transiting Mercury at 9° Scorpio very closely square his natal Sun at 9° Aquarius and Venus at 10° Aquarius. This quite positive, and also potentially important because Mercury is activated as the lord of the year.  It is very good for communication and getting one’s point across in an elegant manner.
  • Moon trine Saturn – Transiting Moon at 3° Virgo trine Saturn at 2° Taurus, separating, 31 minutes from exact.  This is an interesting contrast with Biden’s Moon square Uranus transit before the debate, because Moon trine Saturn tends to be more calming and stable, whereas Moon square Uranus can make a person kind of jittery and uneven.
  • Jupiter square MC – Transiting Jupiter at 16° Gemini is square his MC at 17° Virgo, just over a degree away.  Positive career transit.
  • Saturn opposite Saturn – Saturn’s ingress into Scorpio the week before the debate triggers the opposition to his natal Saturn at 2° Taurus.  This is interesting because he was first elected to public office at his Saturn return. This transit is less specific to the debate though because it doesn’t go exact until closer to the election, although it is relevant for this entire period in his life from October forward.

Conclusions About the VP Debate

This looks like it has the potential to be a highly contentious debate due to the Moon-Mars square that goes exact that night, as well as the transit of Mars over the ascendant of both candidates.

Biden’s transits seem to be distinctly more difficult, and some of the Mars transits make it look like he might lose his cool at some point during the debate.

Ryan, on the other hand, seems to have much more favorable transits in general, and we would expect him to handle the Mars transit better than Biden, both because he was born at night, as well as the fact that transiting Mars will be trine his natal Mars that night.

Two main themes show up very strongly in the inception chart for the debate itself: 1) Neptune, which will probably bring up issues surrounding deception or dishonesty, and 2) Mars, which will bring out themes having to do with anger or aggression.

What is interesting is that Ryan seems to be the one who is having the closer Neptune transits that night, whereas Biden is the one who is having the closer Mars transits. It is almost as if there is something about the way that Ryan embodies Neptune that night, either in a positive sense through his idealism or in a negative sense by being dishonest, which rubs Biden the wrong way, and results in him becoming very agitated or angry. Either way, we look forward to seeing some fireworks that night.

Second Presidential Debate – October 16, 2012 at 9:00 PM in Hempstead, NY

The second presidential debate will have a town hall format where audience members will pose questions to the candidates on foreign and domestic policy issues.

Inception Chart for the Second Presidential Debate

  • Second presiential debateAt the beginning of the debate 19° Gemini is rising with Jupiter having just risen over the ascendant. This is similar to the chart from a month ago at the DNC when Obama got enough votes to be confirmed as the Democratic nominee.
  • Moon conjunct Mercury – The main signature is the Moon at 15° Scorpio applying to a conjunction with Mercury at 16° Scorpio. Before the Moon conjoins Mercury it completes a sextile with Venus, which goes exact at 10:15 PM, towards the end of the debate, and then right after that the Moon conjoins Mercury, at 10:23.
  • The MC conjoins Neptune at 9:21 PM, then MC square Mars at 9:46, ASC square Uranus at 10:09, Pluto conjunct descendant at 10:15, Jupiter square MC at 10:19, then Venus conjoins the IC at 10:20 and Moon-Mercury trining the MC at the exact same time.  This last string of hits around 10:20 seems to be an important point in the debate.

Obama’s Transits

  • The Moon-Mercury conjunction in mid-Scorpio in the debate chart takes place in his 10th whole sign house.
  • This will be the first presidential debate after Saturn moves into his 10th whole sign house (Scorpio).
  • Saturn trine Venus, square Jupiter – Transiting Saturn at 1° Scorpio is closely trining his natal Venus at 1° Cancer, which is positive, although it is also squaring his natal Jupiter at 0° Aquarius at this time as well.
  • Mars square Pluto – Obama’s closest transit on this night is Mars square Pluto, within 5 minutes of arc, separating. We’re not really sure what to make of this, although it doesn’t generally sound good.
  • Sun sextile Uranus, square Saturn – Transiting Sun at 24 Libra is sextile his natal Uranus at 25 Leo, and square his natal Saturn at 25 Capricorn.  The latter is not a very great transit to be having, as it can coincide with a brief period of not feeling like you are on top of your game.

Romney’s Transits

  • Mars square Mars – Romney’s closest transit on this night is transiting Mars at 7° Sagittarius square natal Mars at 6° Pisces, separating, about 50 minutes of arc away. This is problematic since he was born during the day, and Mars is in his 10th house natally. Some of the edge is taken off of this by the fact that Mars then applies to a sextile with his natal Venus and MC at 8 Aquarius, although this doesn’t go exact until 2 days later.
  • Moon trine Mercury – Transiting Moon at 15 Scorpio is separating from a trine with his natal Mercury at 13 Pisces, about a degree and a half away.
  • Venus square Uranus – Transiting Venus is applying to square his natal Uranus in the 1st, 1 degree and 40 minutes of arc from exact.  Not sure if this applies to the debate itself or something that takes place after it.

Conclusion About the Second Presidential Debate

Neither candidate is really having great transits on the night of the second debate, so it is almost a matter of determining who is doing worse.

We would almost have to give this one to Romney because he seems to have fewer negative transits, except that the one that he does have (Mars square Mars in the 10th) is much more overtly problematic than Obama’s (Mars square Pluto, Sun square Saturn).

Based on that, it seems that Obama has the edge here, although it doesn’t look like he will come out completely unscathed.

Third Presidential Debate – October 22, 2012 at 9:00 PM in Boca Raton, Florida

The final debate will focus on foreign policy, and the format is supposed to be the same as the first debate.

The Inception Chart for the Final Debate

  • Final presidential debateMars opposite ASC – The debate begins with 9° Gemini rising, with Mars right on the descendant at 11° Sagittarius, and Jupiter somewhat close to the ascendant at 15° Gemini.
  • Our initial impression was that this would be less contentious than the first debate or the VP debate, because Mars is not making a hard aspect with the Moon; however, this is the only debate where Mars is right on the descendant when it begins. Jupiter is in the 1st though, so there is some tension there, almost as if one of them tries to go on the attack and then the other tries to play it straight.
  • The Sun ingresses into Scorpio about 45 minutes before the debate begins.
  • The Moon is at 11° Aquarius, and it closely applies to sextile with Mars at 11° Sagittarius very early on in the debate.
  • One might think that the Sun-Saturn conjunction would indicate a more sober or restrained debate, although the Mars placement on the descendant seems more combative. Perhaps this reiterates the potential dynamic that we mentioned earlier with one person being more aggressive and the other being more restrained.
  • Mars hits descendant at 9:05 PM, then Moon completes sextile with Mars at 9:15, Jupiter hits ascendant at 9:23 and Neptune conjoins the MC at the same moment. Venus square ascendant at 9:54, Mars squares the MC at 10:04, Jupiter square MC at 10:20.  Ascendant switches into Cancer at 10:23.

Obama’s Transits

  • Saturn trine Venus – Obama’s closest transit during the final debate is transiting Saturn at 2° Scorpio in his 10th house trine his natal Venus at 1° Cancer, separating, within 16 minutes of arc.
  • Saturn square Mercury – Second closest transit is transiting Saturn at 2° Scorpio square his natal Mercury at 2° Leo, applying within 16 minutes of arc. This is a more difficult transit, perhaps making it harder for him to get his points across during the debate.
  • Venus conjunct Mars – Transiting Venus at 23° Virgo conjunct natal Mars at 22° Virgo, separating, 48 minutes of arc away. This is important than it might appear at first glance because Venus is ruler of the year, and it is conjoining the ruler of his 10th. Since he has a night chart Venus is also the most positive planet for him, so it is like a positive 10th house transit.
  • Sun square Jupiter – Transiting Sun square natal Jupiter, just under a degree away.
  • Mercury sextile Mars – Transiting Mercury at 23° Scorpio sextile Mars, separating, just over a degree apart. This may help to counteract the communication difficulties that might otherwise be indicated by the Saturn-Mercury square mentioned earlier.
  • Mars trine Sun – Transiting Mars trine sun, just over a degree, applying.
  • He has a bunch of positive-looking transits that don’t go exact at the time of the debate, but they come into effect at that time, and then go exact in the following days:  transiting Mercury square Uranus, Mercury sextile Saturn, Sun trine Venus, Venus trine Saturn.

Romney’s Transits

  • Mars trine Pluto – Romney’s closest transit on the night of the final debate is transiting Mars trine Pluto, within 3 minutes of arc, separating. Gives him an extra bit of tenacity.
  • Moon opposing Pluto – Transiting Moon at 11° Aquarius applying to an opposition with natal Pluto at 11° Leo, within 6 minutes of arc. This goes exact at 9:10 PM, just a few minutes after the debate begins. The Moon is also separating from a conjunction with his natal MC and Venus at 8 Aquarius, although this is a few degrees away by the time the debate begins.
  • Saturn square Saturn – Transiting Saturn square natal Saturn, applying within 20 minutes of arc.  He was born during the day, so this isn’t the most difficult transit, but it isn’t great.
  • Transiting Jupiter is applying to a retrograde square with his natal Mercury, although this has been in effect all month due to the station, and it is still about 2 degrees away.

Final Debate Conclusion

Obama has a lot of close transits occurring during the final debate, whereas Romney doesn’t really have many for some reason.

Additionally, Obama’s transits seem to be more decidedly positive and noteworthy, whereas the only really noteworthy one that Romney is having is the Saturn square Saturn transit, although that is hardly indicative of a major victory.

It would appear that the final debate will go to Obama.

Final Remarks

In this analysis we primarily focused on the transits that each candidate will have on the night of each debate, and we didn’t take into account other techniques that could provide additional perspectives on the situation.

For example, in our official look at the astrology of the 2012 election we noted that Romney goes into a difficult period just before the second debate, according to a different technique, and things looked like they would go downhill for him after that.

Our analysis in the present article is a bit more nuanced, although generally it does still seem like Obama has the better transits in just about every debate, except for the Vice Presidential debate, where Ryan does seem to have the edge.

We will be following the debates closely with our team of astrologers, and we may do some live-blogging or recaps of individual debates, so be sure to check back here often during the course of the month for updates.

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Written by

Chris is a practicing astrologer from Denver, Colorado, USA. He is the former President of the Association for Young Astrologers, as well as the former Research Director of the National Council for Geocosmic Research. He offers personal consultations and teaches online classes through his website at

Hellenistic Astrology Course


  • Gary P Caton says:

    Aries rising with Mars in Scorpio/8 opp exalted Moon in Taurus/2. Someone will try to go dirty and other will stay on high ground. take a wild guess who’s who? ;-0

    if you look at this like a sporting match, then Asc is whoever goes first, or whoever gets aggressive first.

    this chart looks to me like Obama (Saturn in Libra) will be on defensive and will master the facts (Mercury), and Romney will try to sling mud. Not much of it will stick, but what does stick will have a hard time coming off -and they will hammer that the rest of the way

  • S.A. Hopkins says:

    Hey Chris…thanks for the article.
    Just to add:
    Romney’s secondary progressed Sun is 25 Taurus.
    The US progressed MC is 25 Taurus (using Sibley)
    The Moon at the start of the 1st debate is 24′ Tau 42″.
    Romney’s progressed Moon is 10 Aries on his progressed MC.
    Obama has a tertiary progressed New Moon @ 29 Gemini on Nov. 8th.

    I have more on the Romney / Ryan synastry, but I’ll spare you 🙂


  • Chris Brennan says:

    The first debate is about to begin. We have a team of 10 astrologers watching. Here are some times to watch out for tonight:

    7:14 – Mercury conj Descendant
    7:19 – Saturn conj Descendant
    7:20 – Ascendant into Taurus, trine Venus, sextile Neptune
    8:07 – MC square Mercury.
    8:09 – Obama Moon square Uranus
    8:14 – MC square Saturn
    8:16 – MC into Aquarius.
    8:17 – Obama Moon trine Saturn
    8:32 – Moon conjunct Ascendant.
    8:36 – Ascendant conj node.
    8:40 – Ascendant opposite Mars

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Initial reactions after the first debate, on October 3, 2012, at 9:10 PM MDT, about 40 minutes after it ended:

    It seems that Obama was the one who ended up having problems with the Mercury-Saturn conjunction that was setting over the western horizon when the debate began, and the communication problems we mentioned as being associated with it. His delivery seemed very stiff, and he seemed to have some difficulty saying what he wanted to say, especially at the beginning of the debate, although even in his closing remarks he stumbled a bit. He started to recover around 7:20 when the ascendant moved into Taurus and trined Venus, although he still didn’t seem to be at the top of his game tonight.

    Romney, on the other hand, did pretty well, and it seems that he got the comeback that he needed, with that Jupiter station in his 1st house, conjunct his natal Uranus, which turned out to be even more positive than we anticipated.

  • tracy says:

    fwiw’s Jim Leherer’s chart has transiting chiron square his mercury. No kidding.
    Reviews of his role of moderator were very chiron square mercury. ouch.

  • Kay Kraeuter says:

    Well obviously, Romney won. I have no idea what Gary Caton was talking about, but Romney had the facts readily at hand, Obama was scattered, sometimes bored, looking as if he would rather be anywhere else. Clearly, he didn’t want to be confronted. Mudslinging? Well if you regard facts as “mud” so be it, whatever rationale you want to place on this Obama train wreck.

    Now, what is really at work here. Look no further than the pending transit of Saturn’s entrance into Scorpio. With the square to Obama’s ascendent, it is obvious that skating by on charm and a great smile simply will not work anymore for Obama. Facts, truth rule the day with Scorpio; the band aid is being ripped off, and we are no longer placated with platitudes. Some more bad news for Obama–the next debate takes place with moon in Scorpio…..take my advice Mr. Obama, call in sick.

  • Sonja Foxe says:

    What a surprise! Obama imploded — actually the mars transit to moon/jupiter helped Mittens’ combativeness & I guess the Mars to O’MC was more of an attack on career …

    I thought since O was prepping in Henderson, NV … and wondered if there was a consultation there … would have been invigorating.

    Nevertheless, I would like to nominate Curt Manwaring for the Johndro … and hope some of you other hard core political junkies join me which properly managed will get some media attention … and has the possibility of an astrological quantum leap in terms of professional respect (vis a vis the American campus)

    I still expect O to win … since he will still carry his ward, the 5th on Chicago south side — and that is very very important.


  • kate says:

    Hi all, I thought that Venus entering Virgo yesterday opposing Neptune sitting on Mitt’s ascendant/descendant gave him that glamourus edge that he needed. That aspect gave him a charisma and sheen that is unconsciously very attractive to us the public.

    Certainly the Saturn/Mercury conjunction must have plagued the President causing the slowness of speech. It was cruel too, of the Conservatives to reintroduce that video from 2007, the night before the debates, which can be interpreted as Obama being racially provocative. Worriesome stuff to have in one’s head.

    The combativeness of the Moon Mars opposition was there and I believe the debate ended before that became exact.
    Thank you Chris for taking this interesting astrology lesson on..

  • tracy says:


    You may need to double check the time for the vice presidential debate.
    I have it at 9pm EDT, you list it at 8pm. Danville is not central time zone it is Eastern Time zone (I just checked).

  • Kay Kraeuter says:

    What cannot be lost in the inconsequential fleeting aspects of the day, is the overall astrological trend against Obama. Different from 2008, when his progressed Sun formed a trine with his natal Saturn in the 12th, we now see him lose that protection and is in the midst of an onslaught of stressful aspects affecting the house of unseen enemies and self undoing. Progressed Mars forms a square to natal Saturn, his progressed ascendant forms an opposition to that same natal placement, while transiting Saturn forms a square with Jupiter. As his chart ruler, Saturn plays a pivotal role; here it appears this Karmic planet has some “settling up” to do with Mr. Obama. Throw in the progressed Sun entering the 8th house of death, and we see an ending of some sort developing. Obama winning the election? Um, I don’t think so.

  • David says:

    Do you not use midpoints in your predictive work? One heads up about the Ryan-Biden debate. Ryan has transit Jupiter right on his Sun-Moon midpoint Oct 11th. He will kick Biden’s ass.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Tracy you are right! We mistakenly thought that Danville was on Central Time, so the chart is an hour off! Thank you so much for catching that. I’m going to go in and edit that section of the article now, and add a note to point out that it has been revised. Interestingly, it looks like the new chart will place Mars very close to the descendant early on in the debate, which actually emphasizes the Mars themes that we had already noted even more.

  • ANetliner says:

    Gary Caton’s comments were right on the mark, with Romney the aggressor and Obama taking a high-minded stance. I notice that Mr. Caton’s comments were posted some 11 hours before the debate. Well done, Mr. Caton,

  • Astro Lady says:

    Transiting Venus was in his 7th house, sextile his natal Venus. While this transit promotes popularity, it also promotes harmony and cooperation. Under this influence, we are not prone to making conflict; rather, we desire cooperation and harmony. Notice how many times Obama indicated the areas in which the two candidates agreed? Notice how he didn’t “attack” Romney to the same degree he was attacked?

    Saturn is now within one degree of squaring his 12th house natal Jupiter. During this time, we feel down on our luck. Obama may feel restless for new opportunities, but feels bogged down with issues from the past. Jupiter in the 12th is often seen as an aspect that indicates one has a guardian angel on their shoulder, helping then navigate life’s crises. With Saturn squaring this planet, perhaps Obama feels his guardian angel is on a break.

    The most important and significant transit is Obama’s Chiron Return. Obama has Chiron in Pisces in the first house. His demeanor yesterday was vastly different than the Obama we’re used to. Having a planet or and asteroid in our first house will manifest through the way we project ourselves to the world. Our physical appearance, mannerisms, and body language all fall under the first house’s jurisdiction.

    Obama’s natal Chiron is in his first house. This indicates Obama’s reoccurring wounds manifest through his sense of self, which has somehow been harmed in the past. As a result, a sense of inferiority and a lack of self-confidence may plague him from time to time. These thoughts lead to self-defeating behaviors. Obama may be working through some demons right now. He may be having fears and doubts over how he perceives himself and how others perceive him.

    Read my full article at:!debate-2012-what-happened-obama/c1drk

  • Mary Plumb says:

    hi everyone,

    just a quick thought: Rachel Maddow wondered (on MSNBC) after the debate whether Obama has been so changed by the office that “this is just how he is now”..(seeming tired, etc)
    he has had a huge amount of Saturn, by transit of course and in the progressed chart..i felt that was underneath what we saw in the debate..

    from my blog:”Saturn and Mars rule the angles in the natal chart (as well as the progressed angles). Saturn rules the natal Aquarius Ascendant and Mars rules the natal Scorpio Midheaven.

    Transiting Saturn has been squaring natal Saturn since November 2011 and was precise for the last time at 25°19’ Libra on August 21, right before the convention.

    During this same time, transiting Saturn was opposite the progressed Ascendant, conjunct progressed Mercury, and square the progressed Midheaven ruler (see chart above), i.e., Saturn at 23° Capricorn and conjunct Ascendant ruler Mars at 25° Libra; both rulers are also on the progressed angles. One further detail: slow-moving progressed Mars has also passed the exact square to natal Saturn in April 2012. Yikes! I’d say this is a life well-tempered by Saturn.”

    here’s to Saturn in Scorpio…

  • Bob says:

    What went wrong! What went wrong!

    Nothing. As above, so below. The President was Saturned. I doubt his performance was a planned strategy.

    The transits to the President’s relocated natal chart for the night of the debate found transit Saturn was square his natal Saturn and the midpoint of transit Sun and Saturn was square the relocated MC. The Saturn involvement to these natal points explains his body language and delivery. .
    The charts for last night can be viewed by clicking the link below.

    The President’s subdued body language and delivery was like throwing red meat to a hungry lion to Rmoney. I think he took them as a sign of submission which just propelled transit Mars on his Moon which was within 10 minutes of arc at the start of the debate and grew more exact as the debate went on.

    Romney’s chart relocated to Denver has a 195°31′ MC, it was trined by stationing Jupiter at 75°18 and natal Uranus at 76°47′.


  • D. says:

    Stationing Jupiter 75°18 trine Solar Return Equal 10th and natal antiscia Mercury 16-17Libra. Stationing Jupiter 74° on elections day will continue the same trine, so I think it will help Romney in the coming debates too.

  • tracy says:

    The pronounced aspects with the Moon put the emphasis on the one woman in the room– Martha Raddatz. I put up my thoughts on my blog.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Post VP debate recap, about two hours after it ended:

    The Moon-Mars square was out in full force tonight, and so was transiting Mars on Biden’s ascendant. It did turn out to be a highly contentious debate, as we predicted, and Biden was particularly aggressive and combative. The headlines on some of the news websites right now say it better than I can:

    CNN’s front page headline:

    – No ‘malarkey’: A feisty debate

    Some headlines on Politico immediately after the debate:

    – Biden goes after Ryan in lone VP debate

    – Biden savages Romney on 47%

    Even the moderator had some of the Moon-Mars square rub off on her. Here is another headline on Politico right now:

    – Raddatz assertive right out the gate

    We are still waiting for the polls to come in, but right now the CNN poll is saying that 48% of registered voters watching debate thought Ryan won, while 44% thought Biden won. But then a CBS News poll of 500 uncommitted voters gave Biden a 50% edge over Ryan’s 31%.

    My general impression as an observer is that it could go either way, but it seems like this should come out in favor of Biden, unless somehow the narrative gets turned against him and he is seen as being overly aggressive. Some people will definitely feel that he was being too combative, and he did seem to get very close to crossing the line a few times, but there are probably a lot of Democrats who were pleased by his aggressiveness, especially when compared to Obama’s rather reserved performance last week. It will be interesting to see what the narrative becomes in the media over the next few days, as that may dictate how this debate is viewed in retrospect.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Haha! The headline on the front page of CBS News right now is “Fireworks fly at VP debate”.

    Our concluding remarks from the VP debate section above were: “Either way, we look forward to seeing some fireworks that night.”

    Here is a screen cap of CBS’s front page right now:

    I realize that this isn’t terribly impressive, but I thought it was kind of interesting.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Some headlines today, the day after the VP debate:

    The Associated Press:

    – With mocking smile and wagging finger, Biden walks line between aggressive and domineering

    From NPR:

    – No. 2s, Biden, Ryan, Square Off In Combative Debate

    Fox News:

    – Sparks fly as Biden, Ryan face off in feisty vice presidential debate

    – Biden accused of being disrespectful in debate with grins, laughs

    NBC News:

    – Biden brings the heat

    Washington Post

    – Vice presidential debate: Biden’s smirk gets mixed reactions

    New York Times

    – Showing His Teeth, Biden Spurs Debate on His Performance

    From the Times article “The question by Friday morning: Did Mr. Biden go too far? The answer was elusive, with early snap polls suggesting that most viewers were divided over who won the debate.”

  • D. says:

    Biden’s fighting spirit and bullying was certainly caused by transit Moon in Biden’s natal 10th, square transit Mars conj his natal Asc (and progr MC) opposed natal Saturn-Uranus. 2011 Solar Return Mercury 18Sag opp return MC and square return Moon-Asc on natal MC which indicate that his own actions will have an impact on his career.

    On 6 november 2012, transit Mercury stationary will conj Joe Biden’s natal Asc (and progr MC) opposed natal Saturn-Uranus, and transit Mars (and tr Pluto antiscia) will square his natal MC. I think there could be some violent event around the time of election.

    On 20 January 2013, transit Jupiter will conjunct natal Saturn-Uranus opposed natal Asc (and progr MC) and tr Saturn will conjunct his natal Mars in 12th. This indicate a more difficult time than in 2008-2009 when tr Saturn was conjunct his natal MC, and transit Jupiter was conjunct his progressed Sun.

  • D. says:

    Second presidential debate Scorpio Moon-Mercury conjunction parallel parallel Romney’s natal Moon-Jupiter, and transit Mars sextile his natal MC whhich gives Romney an advantage on Obama whose natal Ascendant square Scorpio Moon-Mercury, and transit Mars not only square his natal Pluto but also oppose his natal Moon. So I think Romney will again gain points in the 2nd debate.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    I think that you are overlooking or underestimating that square between transiting Mars and Romney’s natal Mars in his 10th house on Tuesday night, D.

  • D. says:

    Romney’s Mars is in mutual reception with Jupiter in their domicile, and Jupiter, natal and transit, ruling over natal and transit Mars is lucky, so I think the extra energy of Mars squ Mars will be put to good use instead of negative. Do you still think it will manifest negatively?

    End of April 2012, transit Mars oppose Romney’s natal Mars. His campaign fought back the news that he had carried his dog in a crate over his car, with the news that Obama who had transit Mars conjunct his natal Pluto square natal Moon, had ate dogs as a young boy.

    So it is possible that Romney will fight back again on something that will offend Obama on the seconde debate?

  • Chris Brennan says:

    I think that each of us tends to have more problems with one malefic or the other based on the concept of sect, and for Romney with his day chart he tends to have more problems with Mars rather than Saturn, even though it is otherwise relatively well-placed, as you pointed out. That is the main reason why I think that it will probably be more of a negative transit for him than a positive one. If he was born at night then I wouldn’t necessarily think that it would be as problematic.

    With transiting Mars squaring his natal Mars from the 7th house, I wonder if there is something about the town hall style format on Tuesday that will be more problematic for him compared to the previous debate. The town hall format is more of an intimate situation where you are supposed interact directly with other people, which symbolically seems like a 7th house type of thing, and it just doesn’t sound very good to be having a Mars transit like that in one’s 7th house on the same night.

    It is also worth nothing that in our official prediction earlier this year we noted that Romney goes into a difficult period right before the second debate, starting today actually, October 13. Here is the diagram from the end of that article:

    According to the technique we used, he is starting a Virgo period, which is opposing his natal Mars in his chart, and that is the main reason why it is difficult according to the technique. So, it comes back to that natal Mars placement again, and the question of how much is it really working either for him or against him. When you take sect into account, I don’t think that it is the malefic that works in his favor, in my opinion. We will see what happens soon though.

  • D. says:

    The first debate moderator was much criticized by the democrats. The republicans expect now that the moderators will be more helpful to the democrats than the republicans, and I think they and you are correct, and this could manifest with transit Mars in Romney’s 7th square his natal Mars, as you wrote the start of a bad period for Romney. However, transit Mars in hard aspect to Romney’s natal Mars is also in hard aspect to Obama’s natal Moon square Pluto, so it is a double sword effect, and both could suffer. We will see soon enough how this dreadful transit Mars manifest itself.

    15 october 2012 New Moon Mars, ruler of New Moon Ascendant, is contra-parallel Jupiter, and in Grand trine with Aries Uranus and Hempstead NY, Boca Raton FL and Washington DC New Moon MC. It indicates violence from the people, maybe riots. I expect (and I am not alone) some riots on election day with transit Mars 22Sag (conjunct Pluto antiscia), but this violence could start before?

  • D. says:

    I pay more attention to triplicity ruler of the Sun in a diurnal chart and to triplicity ruler of the Moon in a nocturnal chart, than to sect. Romney’s Pisces Mars is the ruler of Romney’s natal Pisces Sun, so Mars is very important, very powerful in 10th whole house and in mutual reception with Jupiter, ruler of Ascendant and 10th whole house. I think that transit Mars opposed his natal Uranus and square his natal Sun on election day is more dangerous than transit Mars square natal Mars. And Romney’s natal Sun oppose Obama’s natal Mars. However, both have good security, so they should not be harmed personally.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    I’m sorry, but your multiple predictions of violence and riots in this thread seem to be based on somewhat flimsy evidence to me, and I’m going to have to ask you to stop at this point, as the comments section here was never meant to be a soapbox for that sort of thing.

    Actually, it is not meant to be a soapbox for anyone for that matter, so other commentators please take note of this as well, as we are going to start cracking down on that more than we have in the past, because it is becoming kind of annoying.

  • Jay says:

    Hi Chris;

    Thank you for this wonderful analysis. It is great to see the transit mapping and how you analyze it. Please continue to provide any insight into future events in the run up to the elections. The mercury retrograde is worrisome being on election day. We can only hope for the best. Thank you.


  • Thank you, Chris and Patrick, for your detailed work on so many aspects of this upcoming Presidential election. I really appreciate your clear-headed and well organized analyses. All of us benefit from your research and your research data. It is also great to have it all in one place, including the birth data for Paul Ryan.

    I have posted an Election Update today. It focuses on the three Presidential Debates, and follows up on some themes of yours. You can find it at I have especially delved into the patterns formed on the current eclipse axis, and based on my analysis I think that Obama should do much better in tonight’s debate as well as in the 3rd debate. Though we are using different methods, I too feel that tonight’s debate will be more difficult for Romney, in terms of maintaining his cool. This is a Tuesday (considered a Mars-ruled day in Vedic astrology), and tr. Mars tightly conjoins Romney’s own eclipse axis, within minutes.

    Edith Hathaway

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Important times for tonight’s second presidential debate:

    – Sun trine ascendant at 9:18 PM ET
    – MC into Pisces 9:21
    – MC conjunct Neptune at 9:22
    – ASC into Cancer 9:44
    – MC square Mars at 9:47
    – Pluto sextile MC at 9:48
    – Saturn trine ASC at 9:49
    – ASC square Uranus at 10:09
    – Transiting Moon-Venus sextile goes exact at 10:15
    – Pluto conjunct descendant at 10:15
    – Jupiter square MC at 10:19
    – Venus conjunct IC at 10:20
    – Moon-Mercury trine MC at 10:20 as well.
    – Moon conjunct Mercury exact 10:23.

    The last cluster towards the very end seems to be important, with a bunch of stuff going exact around 10:20.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    This is the first debate since Romney entered enter the new Virgo period that he will be in for the next few months. In our official prediction it was that Virgo period with his natal Mars opposing it that we thought would coincide with the loss of the election. It is interesting that the first debate since that period began features transiting Mars square his natal Mars. He’s also in a Scorpio perfection year. So, that 10th house Mars placement is being fully accentuated tonight.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    The CNN Post-Debate Poll: 46% say President Obama won the second presidential debate; 39% say Romney won.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Recap after the second presidential debate, about 3 hours after it ended:

    The debate came out more or less how we called it, with Obama edging out Romney, although it was not a major landslide, and he certainly did not come out unscathed. According to the CNN snap poll immediately after the debate, 46% said that President Obama won, while 39% said Romney won.

    Romney’s Mars square natal Mars transit tonight seemed to make him very aggressive in the first half of the debate, kind of like Biden during the VP debate last week, who was also having a close Mars transit that night. There were several very tense moments early on in the debate between Romney and Obama, and also between Romney and the moderator, Candy Crowley of CNN. Romney was trying to be assertive like he was in the first debate, but it didn’t come off as well, as he just ended up interrupting and talking over people a few times in a way that was kind of off-putting. He reined it in during the second half of the debate, but it seemed like the damage had already been done.

    Obama generally seemed more animated, and after some prodding he held his own against Romney, which led to a couple of pretty tense standoffs. Astrologer Samuel F. Reynolds said in a tweet yesterday that Obama wouldn’t come out swinging, but he would be “more intense and sharper” due to the Mars square Pluto transit he had tonight, and I think that turned out to be an accurate description of what we saw. Interestingly, it was right when Pluto set over the descendant in Hempstead tonight that the Libya discussion came up, and that was definitely one point where Obama seemed to have some problems – especially with respect to the question over the security requests that had been made by some of the diplomats there, and he did not end up answering the question.

    There is an article on the New York Times website right now titled “In Debate’s Dance, Romney Has More Missteps” that does a pretty good job of describing how the tense transits that each candidate was having actually looked from the perspective of the audience tonight:

    “They didn’t seem to feel people’s pain; they mostly tried to wound each other. At their town hall debate on Tuesday night at Hofstra University, President Obama and Mitt Romney circled around each other like tomcats in an alley, at one point doing a little dance of dominance as they clashed over energy policy.”

    This is actually a great way to describe what turned out to be a very tense debate, especially in the first half, where both candidates were having very tense transits. Transiting Mars square Pluto for Obama, and transiting Mars square Mars for Romney. As we said in our original prediction though, Mars square Mars is typically a much more overtly difficult transit to have, and as a result of that, Obama did seem to come out on top in this debate. Obama did not knock it out of the park though, so there will still be a lot riding on the final debate next week.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    The CBS poll that was taken after the second debate seems to confirm the CNN poll, with 37 percent of uncommitted voters saying that Obama won, and 30 percent saying that Romney won. 33 percent said it was a tie.

  • tracy says:

    tonight’s chart is so supportive to a debate on Foreign Affairs, yet, I have a hard time imagining the candidates staying on that topic for 90 minutes. I wrote about it on my blog.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Important times for tonight’s final presidential debate. The chart is set for Boca Raton, Florida. All times are in eastern daylight time:

    8:14 – The Sun ingresses into Scorpio, which is Obama’s 10th whole sign house & Romney’s profected 1st.
    9:05 – Mars sets (conjunct descendant)
    9:05 – Moon trine Ascendant
    9:05 – Nodes square MC
    9:08 – Moon opposite Romney’s Pluto exact
    9:14 – Moon sextile Mars
    9:21 – MC moves into Pisces
    9:21 – Sun trine MC
    9:23 – Neptune conjunct MC
    9:23 – Jupiter rises (conjunct ASC)
    9:29 – Saturn trine MC
    9:48 – Pluto sextile MC
    9:54 – Venus square Asc
    10:04 – Mars square MC
    10:20 – Jupiter square MC
    10:23 – Ascendant moves into Cancer
    10:23 – Sun trine Ascendant
    10:25 – Neptune trine Ascendant
    10:32 – Saturn trine Ascendant

  • Melody says:

    Thank you for the transits. I wish I would have thought to read the comments earlier! 🙂 I did enjoy the section on the final debate very much and I can enjoy the breakdown for the last hour. Good stuff! Thanks again!

  • Warren Kinsman says:

    I think your original forecast about tonight favoring President Obama was right on. For me tonight was an overwhelming win for the President. He countered Mr. Romney on several occasions, and didn’t sit back. Frankly I was somewhat surprised that Mr. Romney wasn’t more aggressive.
    Am I biased? I have already voted for the President, but I’ll leave that for others to decide.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    No, I think that you are right that Romney wasn’t very aggressive tonight Warren. Even conservative commentator Laura Ingraham tweeted at one point “Romney using kid gloves ag Obama tonight–WHY?!”

  • Chris Brennan says:

    CNN Post-Debate Poll: Who won the debate? Obama 48% | Romney 40%

    CBS News Instant Poll of Uncommitted Voters: 53% Obama wins, 23% Romney, 24% Undecided.

    Public Policy Polling poll of swing state voters say Obama won the debate 53-42, and are planning to vote for him 51-45. The states covered in the swing state poll were CO, FL, MI, IA, NH, NV, NC, OH, PA, VA, and WI.

  • Chris Brennan says:

    Our official statement after the final presidential debate, about 4 hours after it ended:

    Tonight’s third and final presidential debate went very close to how we anticipated.

    In our analysis of the chart for the start of the debate we noted the Mars-Jupiter opposition in the 1st and 7th houses, and speculated that “one of them tries to go on the attack and then the other tries to play it straight.” Later we also noted the Sun-Saturn conjunction, which we said “reiterates the potential dynamic that we mentioned earlier with one person being more aggressive and the other being more restrained.”

    As it turns out, it was Romney who played the straight man and ended up being much more restrained compared to previous debates, whereas Obama came out on the attack, and was much more aggressive. This may have to do with the fact that Romney won the coin toss, and so he went first, and thus symbolically he becomes associated with the 1st house and Jupiter, while Obama becomes associated with the 7th house and Mars.

    Right now the title of the featured article on the front page of Politico is “Mitt Romney: I come in peace” Here is a screencap:

    Another title just below that is “Obama tears into Romney at last debate”

    With respect to the natal charts, Obama had several prominent Mars transits tonight, and he seemed to channel those energies pretty well, into a very assertive but not too overly antagonistic demeanor. The transits were Mars trine Sun, Mercury sextile Mars, and Venus conjunct Mars. It seems that we were right in thinking that these Mars transits would help to counteract the Saturn square Mercury transit he was having, which could otherwise indicate some difficulties in communicating, like in the first debate.

    Romney was much more restrained than we have seen him in any of the debates. To a certain extent this seemed like a calculated strategy that he adopted going into the debate, but it didn’t seem to serve him well because there were a number of times when he appeared to miss the opportunity to respond to some of Obama’s jabs. At one point we almost wondered if he wasn’t feeling well, because he seemed so subdued, and it was almost like a complete reversal of roles for both candidates compared to the first debate. It is possible that this had to do with the very close Saturn square Saturn transit that he had tonight, which could make someone feel like they are not at the top of their game.

    Ultimately it seems that we were right in our analysis that the large number of close transits that Obama had compared to the few that Romney had tonight, as well as the fact that most of them were “decidedly positive and noteworthy”, would indicate that Obama would win the debate. The snap polls that came in afterwards all indicated that the majority of viewers thought that Obama had won the debate. In the order in which they came in:

    1. CBS News Instant Poll of Uncommitted Voters: 53% Obama wins, 23% Romney, 24% Undecided.

    2. CNN Post-Debate Poll: Who won the debate? Obama 48%, Romney 40%.

    3. Public Policy Polling poll of swing state voters say Obama won the debate 53-42, and are planning to vote for him 51-45.

    Ultimately this seemed like a decisive win for Obama, and the transits to his birth chart seem to reflect that. If there really are undecided voters at this point in the election season whose minds were made up as a result of this debate, and if they do in fact end up being the deciding factor in determining the final outcome of the election, then it seems that Obama just won himself the election tonight.

  • J Atkinson says:

    Hello Chris,

    Wow, because you were so accurate about the debates, you must be spot on with the election outcome. In regard to last night, do you think Mitt was medicated at the last debate?

  • Chris Brennan says:

    I have no idea. It appeared to me that he might not be feeling well at one point, and Patrick and I discussed afterwards whether some of the 6th house placements (Sun, Saturn) that night could have ended up indicating illness, but I can’t really say whether he was medicated.